 "Esther Duflo")
French-American economist Esther Duflo, who shared the 2019 Nobel Prize for Economics with Abhijit Banerjee and Michael Kraemer, was in Kozhikode recently to speak at the Kerala Literature Festival. Her latest book, Poor Economics for Kids (Juggernaut), illustrated by French illustrator Cheyenne Olivier, revolves around the lives of children and adults living in a village that “could be in India or Kenya or Vietnam or elsewhere”, and is based on the research presented in Poor Economics: Rethinking Poverty and the Ways to End It (2011), which Duflo co-wrote for adults with Banerjee (who is also her husband). In an interview with Chintan Girish Modi, she speaks about writing for children and why she thinks the poor are economically savvy and resourceful. Edited excerpts:
What kind of books did you read as a child?
France has a lot of good presses that specialise in publishing stories for children. I grew up reading books as well as weekly and monthly magazines. Most of them were associated with the Christian left. It was through these stories that I was first exposed to life and people in other countries of the world. My parents read to me, and I read to my kids.
How did your parents choose what they read out to you? Did they focus on exposing you to stories that would instill values cherished by the Christian left?
Well, my mom belongs to the Christian left, so maybe there was an intention to educate, but the stories were generally quite good and the illustrations were of a high quality.
In Poor Economics for Kids, you do not talk down to readers. You encourage them to think critically. Also, you draw attention to sources and citational practices. How were you able to do this in a child-friendly way?
Assuming that what you write is too complicated for the reader and that they will not understand is insulting to them. There is nothing that you cannot explain if you are doing a good job explaining. And if you are not doing a good job, you have to learn how to do a better job. My kids used to read a lot of non-fiction, and I did not like the spoon-feeding by American as well as French authors who thought that they had to dumb things down for kids.
Cheyenne’s illustrations are rich with details. This is excellent for kids because they don’t read books just once. They read them again and again. Each time, they find something different. They do not have to be told what to look for. Kids notice little things, which is why I have left a lot unsaid. The introductory essay in the book is only for teachers and parents.
What did you learn in the process of writing for children?
While writing for children, I learnt that you cannot afford to be meandering. Sometimes, I was trying to make too many points or hit too many targets. I learnt from Cheyenne that it wasn’t working very well, so I had to do it differently. I think that I am a good listener and don’t have much pride, so I am willing to be flexible and make things work.
You present poor people as resourceful, entrepreneurial, and resilient.
I was influenced by the French left-wing Christian literature that I grew up reading. They have a very narrow view of poverty, which is mostly focused on charity. I remember reading a comic book on Mother Teresa that gave me a very distorted picture of Calcutta (now Kolkata). Also, I was a teenager when the Live Aid concerts were being held to raise funds for people who were affected by the famine in Ethiopia. I grew up with the impression that to be poor was to be starving and helpless. My fieldwork as an economist taught me that the poor are very economically savvy and resourceful. Unlike the rich, they cannot afford to be wasteful. Their mental space is preoccupied with how to make ends meet and avoid the next disaster.
The book also shows how the poor are more vulnerable to the impact of climate change. What can governments learn from your research on this subject?
When Abhijit and I wrote Poor Economics: Rethinking Poverty and the Ways to End It, I don’t think we fully saw how life-changing the climate crisis was going to be. I see that now, which is why Poor Economics for Kids looks at the impact of climate change. The lesson to be learnt is that it would be foolish to expect the private sector to take care of everything. People used to think that the market would take care of everything.
In California, nobody wants to insure houses anymore, but people are still going to live there so the government ends up being the insurer of last resort. People in the US are frustrated with the system… In our book, we wanted to draw attention to the system that is not working and not show one person as the embodiment of evil.
Kerala has been a communist stronghold. As an economist, what lessons do you think can be learnt from Kerala, especially in terms of poverty alleviation?
Kerala has always been a kind of example for economists. Amartya Sen, for instance, highlighted Kerala’s wonderful literacy and health outcomes. There are several factors behind this. There is communism, of course, but also the fact that caste relations are less intense than in other places in India. Having empowered women is another factor. Kerala’s health minister, KK Shailaja, was an inspiration to the world during the Covid-19 pandemic.
In Poor Economics for Kids, you share that you desperately wanted to be a boy when you were a child because you hated dresses, preferred toys that boys played with, and were concerned about discrimination. How do you look back at little Esther?
If I could, I would tell little Esther, “You’ll be fine.” Girls are doing well in so many fields. But going by what’s happening in the US in particular, I would say, “You don’t want to be a boy. These people are doing terrible things.” Look at Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and Donald Trump. Women are succeeding but men are not able to deal with their success.
What kind of thought process went into choosing a publisher and the pricing?
Chiki Sarkar was the original publisher for Poor Economics: Rethinking Poverty and the Ways to End It, which I wrote along with Abhijit. She had acquired it while she was with Penguin Random House. Then she moved out and set up another publishing house — Juggernaut. We have a great relationship with her, so it made sense to work with her on Poor Economics for Kids. Besides that, she has also published two of Abhijit and Cheyenne’s books – Cooking to Save Your Life and Chhaunk: On Food, Economics and Society.
Apart from the English version of Poor Economics for Kids, which is published by Juggernaut and targeted at young readers from affluent families, we have published low-cost Bengali, Hindi, Kannada, Tamil, and Marathi versions with Pratham Books. The pricing is different because the Juggernaut one is a fat book. This has been split into a set of smaller books for other languages. People can buy and read one story at a time instead of having to buy a big volume. I have been a fan of Pratham Books for a long time. Even before I became one of their authors, I gifted a set of their books to the Nobel Prize Museum after we got the Nobel Prize.
