Want to ensure algorithm doesn't simply give me an echo chamber: Lyor Cohen

Magical records will find their audience. All these labels are signing artists based on how many subscribers or likes, and things like that, says Cohen

At over $54 billion in advertising and pay revenues, Google’s YouTube has emerged as the single-largest force in the global media business across television, streaming, and music. Vanita Kohli-Khandekar spoke to Lyor Cohen, global head of music, Google and YouTube, at the company’s Mumbai office just after his session at WAVES 2025. Edited excerpts:

 

What is YouTube’s position in the global music ecosystem?

 

There's no equal to YouTube. It is a core tool for artists to get paid and connect with their fans. Every morning, I think about two things — fame and fortune. It is important for artists to be able to feed their families. Fame without fortune is not good. We have a twin-engine story. One with people who pay with their eyeballs and others who subscribe.

 

There has been talk about a minimum wage for musicians in America. How has streaming helped artists financially?

 

I haven't heard about it. There is causality on all advancements. Maybe what you're referring to is the tidal wave of choice.

 

Yes, absolutely, the deluge…

 

The deluge makes fame even more difficult. But some of the most important artists now do not have to go to New York, Los Angeles, London or Mumbai. Artists from the smallest villages in India can actually develop a musical career.

 

Does the fact that the barrier of entry has been lowered hugely cause other problems? Yes, it does. Therefore, you have to be an even greater master of your art form. You have to up your game, work harder, be more creative. But the opportunity is much greater because, all of a sudden, you have platforms that will help you be touched by fans all around the world. You'll make more money. Change comes with upsides and downsides.

 

T-Series has been the most-viewed channel on YouTube since 2017. How do you view its dominance?

 

I just interviewed Bhushan Kumar (managing director, T-Series) at WAVES. He is a creative executive, loves melodies and music, and surrounds himself with data scientists. He has an ear (for music), a golden ear. Forty per cent of T-Series earnings are from outside of India.

 

What has the democratisation YouTube and others brought done to the process of music creation?

 

There's a V in the road right now. The V in the road is how do I cut through the clutter of this tidal wave of choice. There's one road, to cut through the clutter through marketing and promotion. That is where most of the industry is going.

 

There's another road very few are travelling. It is through even more handcraftsmanship, finding the most important and moving song. Every time you're out there doing this (swiping action on phone), you're not in the studio, creating, looking for, exploring, and pushing the boundaries of magical music.

 

The artist is completely exhausted and out of position – doing all the shorts, trying to fight through the clutter to get discovered. Most artists and creative people are in a very confused time. They've got lost in the pursuit of the algorithm. The algorithm and all this digital revolution will sort itself out if you write the magical record.

 

But what if there's a magical record and it hasn't been discovered?

 

Magical records will find their audience. All these labels are signing artists based on how many subscribers or likes, and things like that. They don't even listen to the artists. They chase the artists because they've got data. This art form is deeper than that. When you have a magical record, it changes the molecules of people's lives. And it stands the test of time.

 

What are the big challenges and opportunities that YouTube music faces?

 

How to make more money for the artists and songwriters? More money means more artists and songwriters, period. My worry is this. Once upon a time, I went to a record store to buy “A Tribe Called Quest” (a hip-hop band) record. And as I got it, a salesperson tapped me on the shoulder and said, “I see you've got A Tribe Called Quest. Have you ever thought of this new artist called De La Soul (another hip-hop group)?” I said, “Every time I come here, you turn me onto something great. I will buy it.”

 

What splattered my brains on the ceiling that night was not A Tribe Called Quest, because I knew they were great. It was De La Soul. I want the surprise, delight and the discovery to happen. And, I want to make sure that the algorithm doesn't simply give me an echo chamber.

 

Any plans for India?

 

Our charts now are many different charts based on language. There is more segmentation and truth to the styles and art forms coming out of India. Over the last three years, we have given ₹21,000 crore to the music industry, creators, and media companies. Over the next two years, Google will be spending ₹850 crore to accelerate the growth of the creator economy.