 "Kenneth da Nóbrega, Ambassador of Brazil to India and Bhutan")
Brazil will host the 30th Conference of Parties (COP30) later this year under the shadow of the United States (US) exiting the forum. At the same time, the world is coming to terms with the tariff threats of the US and a renewed push for fossil fuels.
Amid these concerns, Brazil is optimistic about participation by economic actors, civil society, and businesses in the US to fight climate change, says Kenneth da Nóbrega, Brazilian ambassador to India and Bhutan, in an interview to Puja Das in New Delhi. He says Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa (Brics) have been discussing possible mechanisms of exchange in national currencies to foster trade and financial flows among the group members. Edited excerpts:
How are the Brics members, especially Brazil and India, planning to facilitate trade after the threat from US President Donald Trump that they may face 100 per cent tariffs “if they want to play games with the dollar”?
The Brics countries have been discussing mechanisms of exchange in their own currencies to foster trade and financial flows among them. This initiative’s goal is to strengthen economic relations among the members and to contribute to a more democratic and diversified international economic environment in which countries will not depend on a restrictive list of currencies to trade in. The mechanism is not directed against any individual currency. It aims at giving the members more flexibility in their own exchanges.
Are the two countries looking at new sectors to further Brazil-India bilateral cooperation?
I have been here for one and a half years. In this period, I have received over 60 missions from Brazil, mostly led by high-level officials at federal or state level. These missions always include business persons and, in most cases, they focus on energy, defence, agriculture, and pharmaceuticals.
In pharmaceuticals, one of the avenues of cooperation between India and Brazil, we want to be a producer of active ingredients of medicines for diabetes, and painkillers, paracetamol, and antibiotics, among others.
As Brazil produces small amounts of these active ingredients, the idea is to look for cooperation with big Indian companies to first set up their production units based on imported active ingredients and then phasing in the production of ingredients there so that Brazil can acquire the technology to produce and, to a certain extent, be self-reliant.
Regarding renewable energy, partnership in ethanol has been developing for years because there have been talks on the extent to which the Brazil experience of flex-fuel motors could be adopted in India, climate- and technology-wise. And after years of talks — G2G (government to government), B2B (business to business), and B2G (business to government) — we are now reaching a mature stage, with several visits of Brazilian delegations and talks to take place this year. If the right economic incentives are in place, the production of cars running on flex-fuel could be scaled up in a significant way in India. But it also depends on regulatory and incentive schemes.
There are 19 flex-fuel vehicles in India. Now it’s a matter of scaling up.
What are the key issues the COP30 is expected to address?
The choice of issues will be based on the premise that after decades of negotiations, we have to move to implementation. In Baku, we concluded the so-called book of the Paris Agreement. Now it’s about implementing. And implementing in concrete terms is, first, we are encouraging countries to submit nationally determined contributions (NDCs), which are aligned with the goal of a 1.5° C ceiling (above pre-industrial levels). The second is to proceed in fulfilling the conclusions of the so-called global stocktaking. The Dubai COP included goals — for 2030 — to increase the production of renewable energy and reduce deforestation. And the third is the new collective quantified goal on climate finance. So, we are focusing on these three.
Last year was the hottest on record. We have had these extreme weather events all around the world. This will put more pressure on governments and all sectors of society to mobilise resources.
One of our priorities will be to mobilise more resources through not only putting pressure on developed countries but also incorporating more actors and non-state actors like multilateral development banks and international financial institutions to scale up financing. This is how we want to proceed because everybody will suffer due to climate change.
The idea is these banks reaching an agreement to not only mobilise more resources but also share knowhow on incorporating in their financing processes an evaluation of climate-sound, climate-abiding loans. Financial products are more adapted to the realities of the least developed countries, which have little fiscal space to repay debts and need funds for their social policies. So, this is a second focus of our mobilisation.
If the whole world goes to Belém (the venue of the COP30), it will make a difference, and we need that.
How challenging will it be for Brazil to mobilise more finance for climate action in the absence of the US?
The US opting out of the Paris Agreement for a second time has created a big challenge. It’s the largest economy in the world. But there are still 174 countries left in the Paris Agreement. The US is composed of 50 states. At state level, there are policies that require economic actors, civil society, and businesses to abide by a number of regulations, and I think there is a community of businesses that remains committed to fighting climate change. So, we will see to what extent they will stick to their objectives and mitigate the effects of US withdrawal.
We think there is room for making progress. It is based on the idea of our conception of transition under the aegis of sustainable development because it integrates social and economic dimensions with the transition, having in mind the principle of common but differentiated responsibilities.
How much does Brazil plan to raise for climate finance at the COP?
The Baku COP mobilised $300 billion by 2035 while the need is for $1.3 trillion. The idea is to build upon the results. These were meagre and insufficient results. But they are there, and we’re going to build on $300 billion. We’re pushing hard to raise awareness that the climate crisis is here, and it’s affecting everybody.
Anticipating figures is difficult, but we can tap into the motivation, put pressure on usual actors, and bring along other actors on this path. This is where we can give a boost to that by including actors and sectors of society that have not been mobilised. This is the way we want to act.
How would Brazil like to take its industrial transition plan up to the COP30?
Our NDCs are structured differently. In elaborating the latest NDCs, we incorporated the criteria of green transition or rather industrial transition, which has been elaborated under this climate change task force of the G20 presidency. So, our idea is to submit a model of NDCs, which is not just a set of commitments but a model of transition. What we have seen is that in many countries, climate change has been fought by a bundle of ad hoc initiatives, not really by a master plan. And climate change is about integrating many aspects of our lives. Therefore, we need a master plan.
This is the Brazilian 10-year plan to take our NDCs as an example and adapt them to their realities. The basic idea is an ordered, planned transition — industrial and economic — towards a green economy, away from fossil fuels and a platform of financial mechanisms. This is one of our conceptual contributions to the COP30 and a three-part master plan which Brazil has conceived and now will present to the world as a suggestion.
