'Dalit capitalism can turn the caste order': Activist Chandrabhan Prasad

Chandrabhan Prasad is a Dalit activist and believes capitalism alone can ensure the liberation of the Dalits. In this interview to Aditi Phadnis, he describes how Dalits have set up successful enterprises and corrects many myths about government programmes. Edited excerpts:
 
 
How do you view the past four years for the struggle for Dalit rights? Have the Dalits got more from the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government than previous governments?
 
Entrepreneurship has emerged as a new agenda in Dalit movements over past two decades. This is a step ahead for seeking jobs. In his second term, the then Madhya Pradesh chief minister Digvijaya Singh had come up with the slogan of Dalit Crorepatis. In January 2002, he organised a mega conference called Bhopal Conference of Dalit scholars, writers and activists. The conference came with a single most important issue of Supplier Diversity, a term popular in the US where government, private sector corporations buy goods, services from African American and other minority-run businesses. The Digvijay Singh government set aside 30 per cent of all government purchases to be procured only from Dalit/Adivasi entrepreneurs. It worked well. Business worth billions of rupees travelled to Dalit/Adivasi owned businesses every month.  With the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) coming to power in 2003, the state government scrapped the newly introduced policy of 30 per cent set asides. The campaign by some of us, however, continued: The metaphor of Dalit Crorepatis unfolded in Dalit Capitalism.

 

At the fag-end of the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) II, something of that sort — the set aside scheme — did move. In 2012, the Central government decided to set aside 4 per cent of all the government purchases, that included public sector enterprises as well, from SC/ST small businesses. It came with a rider though. Much against our wishes, this set aside was to be voluntary for the first three years. By April 1, 2015, it was to become mandatory. The Narendra Modi led NDA came to power in 2014 but nothing happened.
 
Much like the Black capitalism, Dalit capitalism too needs mentoring by the state and India Inc. As slaves, Blacks were not in trade and enterprise. Once free citizens, Blacks too attempted enterprise and trade, but found market hogged by ex-slavers. That’s the reason set asides came to ensure market access to Black entrepreneurs. Dalits/Adivasis too find market clogged by traditional players. What we call the Digvijaya model — the ‘four’ per cent set aside couldn’t really take off. Dalit capitalism finds no favours with the NDA government. Four precious years have been lost.

 
There are many more success stories of Dalit entrepreneurs in the last four years than before. You yourself have reported on many. But in tandem, we are also hearing of more attacks on Dalits. Is this correct and how should we view this?
 
This is completely unrelated to the past four years. Post the 1990 economic reforms, India has witnessed rise of enterprises. Dalits/Tribals too have benefitted. In Uttar Pradesh alone, I have identified over 150 Dalit owned hospitals, doing well, serving all. I can name a number of Dalits entrepreneurs in the Delhi/NCR/Uttar Pradesh region who own BMWs, Mercedes, Audis. Just educated unto Class 5, a Delhi-based Dalit entrepreneur owns a Jaguar as well as a Mercedes, both. A first generation Dalit in Delhi manufactures cranes worth 200 tons. A first generation Dalit businessperson is a vendor to the Tatas.

 
Over two dozen Dalits in Agra own hotels. I just returned from Ranchi. There are at least three tribal first time entrepreneurs in the city who own BMW, Audi cars. There are three tribal restaurateurs. A Jamshedpur based tribal entrepreneur is doing extremely well in garment manufacture and export. Powered by the Tata Steel, a first time tribal woman entrepreneur owns 50 large trucks. A tribal man in Ranchi has an IT company — his clients include Google, Samsung. Yet another tribal man has a business of Fund Management. Another one is building a mini township with 600 residential units in Ranchi, rides an Audi.

 
The post 1990 generation of Dalits/Adivasi have a hunger for business. Many are succeeding, but not all have reached the BMWs, Mercedes, Audi stage. A great number of them are stuck with Fortuners. None owns a helicopter or a plane. This is where the community is stuck. The community needs big role models, billionaires. A Dalit/Adivasi billionaire can inspire many millions more launching their own businesses. India needs more Dalit/Tribals as job givers, and not job seekers.
 
More than anything else, Dalit/Adivasis need new business role models. So for, there are two kinds of role models for the community:  Government servants; and MLA/MPs. Millions of Dalit/Tribal youth try for a few thousand government jobs. Take, for instance, UPSC selections. About a 1,000 recruitments happen a year. That means 225 positions a year. For these 225 positions several 100,000 Dalit/Adivasis try till the age of 37. Those who fail, go back to state level civil service positions where they try, Uttar Pradesh for instance, till they are 43 years old. Dalit capitalism can change all that, it can introduce entrepreneurship as a new career option.    

 
True, Dalits are increasingly coming under attack. Dalits are paying price of their freedom that they have earned in the past seven decades. American Blacks paid price post the Emancipation Declaration of 1863. Hundreds of Blacks were lynched in America. As slaves, there were hardly cases of lynching. They suffered exploitation and atrocities as slaves. Lynchings came post freedom. In the same way, Dalits are facing the heat for their demand of freedom from the clutches of the caste order.  
 
Is there a fracture in Dalit leadership? Both in terms oforganised politics and unorganised pressure groups?
 
Yes, there is. Dalit leadership is decaying, limping. It is failing the WhatsApp generation of Dalits. It hasn’t quite understood the new generation aspirational Dalits. The April 2, 2018 Bharat Bandh was an example. Dalit youth bypassed the established leadership, filled streets across India with anger. For the first time ever, both, the caste Hindu society and governments feared Dalits. Even the Tribals joined the Bandh in several places in central India.

 
What do dalits want from the new government in 2019?
 
Not much. Just that the new government maintains law and order, doesn’t fiddle with the Constitution, retains the supremacy of Parliament. In the NDA government, there is nobody we can talk to. In the beginning, the Prime Minister appeared responsive. But that didn’t endure. In the UPA, we could at least communicate with Montek Singh Ahluwalia who speaks English, understands capitalism and the prowess of markets. 
 
We only hope that the next Prime Minister doesn’t suffer from the Mid Day Meal/MGNREGA/Mudra syndromes. I have been part of Dalit movements for decades. I keep travelling. I have not found one Dalit, I repeat, I haven’t found one Dalit who endorses the  Mid Day Meals Scheme. This notorious scheme has replaced slates with plates. It has given Dalits food, taken away alphabets.

 
Similarly, MGNREGA, whether intended or not, incentivised Dalits staying back in villages. Dr Ambedkar, the philosopher of emancipation, happiness, had asked Dalits to move to cities. As far as back in 1951, he argued for mechanising farming in India. He knew working with bare hands attracted stigmas. The MGNREGA prevents use of machinery. For some reason, leaders prefer the feeding of Dalits: Quite identical to traders feeding rikshawalas on the streets. The same people haggle with rickshaw pullers for as little as Rs 5.
 
It is our misfortune that those handling the affairs of the country haven’t quite figured out how much caste regulated disadvantages hurts GDP as well, and what to do with India’s agrarianism. I see in capitalism a dynamic that can end agrarianism. And for sure, in Dalit capitalism, there is a dynamic that can turn the caste order into a Purana Qila.

 
Politically, in which states should we expect dalit voters to spring a surprise in 2019?
 
Uttar Pradesh. Dalits are 21 per cent plus in the state. If the average voting is, say, 65 per cent, the Dalit voting average might go beyond 75 per cent. Post the April 2 Bharat Bandh, Dalits suffered police atrocities for weeks.