Congress growing fresh roots in up

Q&A/ Salman Khursheed

Your journey from South Block to the dusty, pitted roads of Uttar Pradesh must have been gruelling.

I am happy that it happened. I would otherwise be seen as somebody out of touch with ground reality. I don't want to boast but I have pitched into grassroot level politics as enthusiastically as any state level leader can. I have developed knowledge of every part of Uttar Pradesh and contacts with people and party workers.

That is not to say that I didn't enjoy my stint at South Block. But everything has a time and a place. You cannot call yourself fully equipped as a politician from UP unless you have a first-hand experience.

What are the Congress' prospects in the UP assembly elections?

Estimates vary. I agree with some; I disagree with others. The party is rebuilding itself in a state where events and social developments created a barren territory for us. To grow fresh roots is not easy. We have successfully prepared the ground for the roots to penetrate and for shoots to appear. Only time will tell how they will grow and whether they will survive the weeds grown in the last 15 years.

But without trying to evade your main question, let me tell you that UP is no longer a state where a clear majority for anyone is possible. So, the pecking order and minority numbers is what the entire fight is about. I hope we will do much better than last time. Politics beyond May 2007 will be different for the Congress in UP.

How many seats would you give to the party in the assembly election?

UP's political culture misunderstands numbers. Numbering is, strategically, a bad position to take.

You talked about the events and social developments that created a barren territory for the Congress in UP. Could you expand your diagnosis?

There were different factors "" objective, subjective, groups and individuals. Under the objective category, there were social movements and developments beyond our control. The subjective factor was the individual and collective failure to come to grips with the objective. For instance, if a Dalit movement was emerging, we were unable to take that on and tackle it.

How we conducted ourselves as groups and individuals at that time told on the quality of our performance in UP. Lack of forthrightness and courage on the part of some leaders also brought us down. Many cracks in UP were an extension of the cracks in Delhi.

When an entire edifice collapses, there is no point discussing the cracks. I am convinced we have been able to put back a very sound foundation. But as for superstructure and finishing, the Congress will have to be engaged in this exercise for months and years to come.

Having diagnosed what went wrong for you in UP, how did you go about the treatment?

The party has a new team in UP now. At one point of time, there were some district Congress presidents who had not been changed for over 25 years. We changed 80 per cent of the city Congress and district Congress presidents and brought in young and fresh faces in the party executive.

We have separate task forces on the Right to Information Act and on the rural employment guarantee scheme. We have undertaken a programme to set up gram Congress in every village. We have made efforts to reach out to major backward groups who supported the Samajwadi Party (SP) and the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP).

Getting back to numbers, what do you think is the right figure for the Congress to claim success in the assembly election?

We must not aim at less than 100 seats (in a House of 402). This may sound like an ambitious target but it is not an impossible one. If we are able to do that, the contours of UP politics will change dramatically.

What makes you so hopeful?

It is my determination. If I cannot do that, I am wasting my time in UP. Nobody gave the Congress a chance when the India Shining campaign of the previous NDA regime at the Centre was on. Jairam Ramesh and I sat together and designed our party's campaign. We were able to do enough to defeat the BJP.

What do you think Mulayam Singh Yadav's gameplan in the run up to the election is?

It's like asking what a person on a sinking ship is thinking: Whether to jump and swim or to stay on board waiting for a miracle or to try plugging the leaks. He is over.

Are you in favour of President's Rule in UP?

There are many good reasons for imposing President's Rule in UP. There are great expectations also. But I know that the Central government has to deal with the Supreme Court and allies (read CPI M and DMK). President's Rule will make my job easier but it is not for me to make life difficult for the Centre.

What about the Mayawati factor? You have been attacking the SP and the BJP, but have shied away from taking on the BSP.

What should we attack the BSP for "" for the killings in Nithari, for communal riots, or for squandering funds? We have a clear position that the Congress is a better alternative for all constituents who look forward to the BSP. We have a better understanding and history of addressing the problems of Dalits.

We have heated exchanges with the SP because it is using power in a perverse manner. We have problems with the BJP on ideological grounds, with the SP on issues of good governance, and we are better than the BSP in terms of political alternative.

But the BSP and the Congress have similar concerns and aspirations when it comes to the uplift of dalits, except that we are in a better position and have a history of securing better advancement of dalits. Today we have the Justice Rajinder Sachar committee report. Mulayam Singh calls the report a farce, while we think it is a valuable document that will have a bearing on the future of our country.

But the fact remains that Muslims continue to support Mulayam Singh.

Arithmetic. No Muslim supports him for any sincerity to them. They supported him because of safe arithmetic. The SP had 8 to 10 per cent of backward votes, which came in handy for Muslims. Together they constituted around 22 per cent. But Mulayam had this advantage the last time. This very arithmetic will switch in our favour now.

What is the party's plan of action in the run up to the election?

We are going for early selection of candidates and will launch public campaigns. Soniaji and Rahulji will be our star campaigners.

What is going to be Rahul Gandhi's role?

He is the top Congress leader in UP. He has a personal commitment to UP as an MP and as a leader who has a firm conviction that revival of the Congress in UP is indispensable for the party's future. You will see this reflected in the role he plays in UP. He will lead the campaign from the front.

A section of the Congress believes Rahul Gandhi should not be exposed to a lost battle in UP?

First, it is not a lost battle. Such perception is based on a custom of cheap thrills like where he's going, when he's coming, et al. He has a sober and scientific way of preparing for the election. You will see the results. He will tour across the state.

How are you looking forward to an end of your assignment in UP?

Nobody can remain (UPCC) president for life. It is a very exacting assignment but I am enjoying every moment of it. It was a great honour to be given a second term. I would like to move on leaving the foundation intact. But, it's never going to be good bye to UP. Hopefully, my contact with UP will play a role in my future politics.

The Rashtriya Lok Dal is keen to forge alliance with the Congress. How does it fit in your scheme of things?

In all alliances, there are different perceptions and responses in terms of advantages and disadvantages. From the Shimla conclave onwards, the Congress has transformed itself. We are in an era of alliances. Despite all difficulties, the UPA has been a success. It is for the party leadership to take a view on whether or with whom to have alliance in UP.